Legal and ethics experts interviewed on Friday said they were shocked, calling this another example of the Catholic Church betraying survivors.

Arthur Schaefer, founding director of the Center for Professional and Applied Ethics at the University of Winnipeg and Manitoba, said: “Church officials, lawyers and other professionals should not sleep soundly.”

According to the documents, W. Rod Donlevy and his Saskatoon company McKercher LLP and Pierre L. Baribeau and his Montreal company Lavery Lawyers each received $1.1 million for the 2005 landmark Indian boarding school settlement agreement ( IRSSA) related legal and consulting work. Other companies working for the Catholic Church also received approximately $500,000 in funding.

The legal cost of $2.7 million came from a fund designed to compensate boarding school survivors for sexual and physical abuse, cultural humiliation, medical experimentation, malnutrition, and malnutrition in 70% of Canadian boarding schools operated by the Catholic Church. Other deprivation.

Baribo testified in a 2015 case that these bills were necessary because of all the extra work. Baribeau died in November 2020, and Donlevy died in December 2014. None of McKercher or Lavery Law Firm agreed to be interviewed by CBC on Friday.

None of the other churches participating in IRSSA—the United Church, the Presbyterian Church, or the Anglican Church—deducted any legal fees from the payments they paid to the survivors.

The document is from a 2015 case

These documents form part of the court records of a 2015 case involving the federal government and the Catholic entity that signed the settlement agreement. The government argued that the church’s failure to pay and transfer funds elsewhere violated the 2005 IRSSA.

The Catholic Church has made three pledges to help survivors under IRSSA.

First, it promised to “do its best” to raise US$25 million, but it only raised US$3.9 million.

Second, it promised to provide “in-kind services” worth US$25 million. The Catholic entity contacted by CBC News this month did not agree to provide a complete list of these services. In the documents of the 2015 case, the church’s own accountant admitted that “he did not audit these records and accounts, did not have a basis for evaluating these services, and relied only on meeting minutes provided by Catholic officials”.

Third, the church promised to pay $29 million in cash to programs that directly benefit survivors. The legal fees of 2.7 million dollars—as well as millions of dollars in administrative expenses, defaulted loans and other expenses—are deducted from this pot.

In the affidavit of the 2015 case, Baribo stated that the Catholic Church was required to undertake more work than originally planned, such as participating in the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and disclosing the file records of “missing children and unmarked graves”.

“There have been many meetings with government officials…they often meet,” Baribo said in his affidavit.

He said these activities and additional responsibilities were “obvious” to all parties from the beginning. This includes the dual roles of him and Donlevy in granting and receiving funds.

Transcript showing grumpy communication between lawyers

In 2014, Baribo was also questioned as a witness in the case in his Toronto office.

In the record of the inquiry carried out by the federal government lawyer Alexander Gay, Baribo acknowledged that representatives of all 50 Catholic groups agreed with the idea.

He testified: “Not only did we advise them, we also did not require us to be directors. The annual general meeting of the Catholic entity requires us to be directors. All members understand that we will continue to serve as consultants or as agents of the company.”

In the transcript, Guy repeatedly asked Baribo about his work on consulting fees. Baribo admitted that he served as an adviser to the Catholic Church in the meetings of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and other activities, and that he collected full legal fees. Once, another church lawyer Gordon J. Kusky interrupted him.

“I think we can learn more about this without too many fences,” Kusky said.

Gay said he was “surprised” that Baribo could not recall the basic details of the agreement, especially because he drafted the agreement at the time and the agreement was in front of him.

Kusky interrupted again.

“Mr. Guy, we came here with hope and expectation that the conversation will not be intense: we are giving him a lecture. We told him that he doesn’t know this, or he doesn’t know that is great. That won’t happen and take us anywhere. ,” Kusky said.

Kuski, Donlevy sits next to him as an assistant lawyer, and then advises Baribeau not to answer Gay’s questions.

Guy tried to ask Baribo other questions, but Baribo complained about Guy’s tone.

Barrypo: “Sir, you don’t respect me, I will—”

Guy: “I respect it very much.”

Barripo: “No, you are not at all. You are not at all, sir.”

Guy: “I’m asking this question, if you can allow me to ask my question.”

Barrypo: “No, you don’t respect people at all.”

“The morals are low, and the law is dubious”

The 2015 case should test whether attorney fees and other fees are allowed, and whether the Catholic Church has fulfilled its promise to survivors. On the eve of the hearing, Saskatchewan Court Judge Neil Gabrielson accepted Kusky’s controversial settlement request and the case was closed.

Mary Ellen Turpel-Lafond, a former Saskatchewan court judge and head of the History and Dialogue Center of the University of British Columbia’s Indian Boarding School in Vancouver, said she could not believe that anything of this kind was allowed.

She said these new documents “show another kind of arrogance on behalf of Catholic entities, such as refusing to answer basic questions.”

Turpel-Lafond analyzed the transcript at the request of CBC News. She said that Guy and another federal lawyer, Anne McConville, did a great job exposing the church’s irregularities, even though it was never held accountable.

“Canada has legal counsel on this matter…they are prepared to fight these bullies,” she said.

CBC News requested an interview with an official from the law firm McKercher and Lavery on Friday.

“McKercher’s policy is not to discuss the details of any past or current customer files, so we will not be able to approve your interview request,” McKercher Chief Operating Officer Veronica A. Bendig said in an email on Friday afternoon.

Jean-François Lemieux, senior communications consultant at Lavery, responded via email.

“The client-attorney privilege prohibits us from revealing or confirming any specific information related to this case. Despite litigation…the deductibility of some of our clients’ fees or expenses, the case has been resolved. Therefore, we Understand that this entire issue has been resolved, and both parties and the court are satisfied,” Lemieux wrote.

No one from the Conference of Catholic Bishops of Canada responded to an interview request this week.

Schafer of the Center for Professional and Applied Ethics said these and other revelations show that the Catholic Church rarely considers the most vulnerable groups in society.

“The Catholic Church’s failure to properly fulfill the letter or spirit of its promise to compensate boarding school victims is morally and legally dubious,” Schafer said.

“After the priest’s sexual abuse and cover-up of the scandal, the Roman Catholic Church has little moral credibility. This latest scandal must finally dispel any remaining illusions.”